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A NHNE Special Interview:

Crop Circles:
Colin Andrews & Joyce Murphy

Monday, September 30, 1996

Interviewed by James Gregory & David Sunfellow

Copyright 1996 By NewHeavenNewEarth
Published By NewHeavenNewEarth /

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Colin Andrews is President & Founder of

Joyce Murphy is President & Founder of


James Gregory & David Sunfellow


NHNE: How did you first get interested in crop circles?

ANDREWS: I became involved after spotting five circles in the form of a cross in a field near Winchester, Hampshire, England in July 1983.

MURPHY: My academic background is in mathematics and physics. I happened onto George Wingfield speaking in a Dallas hotel in 1991 and became fascinated with his descriptions of crop circle geometric designs and mathematical glyphs.

NHNE: How did your organization come to be?

ANDREWS: I formed the CPR INTERNATIONAL organization in 1983. We were originally a very small team working together on a daily basis. CPRI is not a subscribed or externally funded organization. I pay the bills and work full time with numerous scientists, engineers and researchers on specific projects. I have volunteer state coordinators in the USA and several teams in the UK. I also have affiliate offices in Canada, Japan and Australia. One part-time staff and I run things from my Connecticut office.

MURPHY: BEYOND BOUNDARIES has been in existence for eight years. For the past five years, we have organized a yearly expedition with Colin Andrews to travel to England and Scotland on a combined crop circles/UFO phenomena investigation. The rest of the year we organize expeditions of researchers to places of currently occurring UFO phenomena all over the world to further their research.

Our primary team consists of four persons:

-- Myself, a Mutual UFO Network (MUFON -- a non-profit group dedicated to the scientific investigation of the UFO phenomenon) State Section Director and Field Investigator (I use that affiliation only when appropriate)

-- Ruben Uriarte, longtime UFO investigator, crop circles investigator and Assistant State Director of California MUFON

-- A Ph.D. psychologist trained in remote viewing by the MONROE INSTITUTE

-- Stuart Conway, a photo journalist doing freelance work for many newspapers including the GLASGOW HERALD in Scotland.

There are also several specialists in different countries associated with BEYOND BOUNDARIES, who raise our total number of staff to ten.

NHNE: What percentage of the people involved in your organization are Americans versus folks from other countries?

MURPHY: 80 percent Americans, 20 percent foreign.

NHNE: How many crop circles have you personally visited and investigated?

ANDREWS: Approximately 2,000 individual circles in 600 patterns.

MURPHY: Over 40 since 1991.

NHNE: Have you personally experienced anything unusual in connection with visiting crop circles, such as feelings, visions, physical sensations, heightened sensitivity, etc.?

ANDREWS: Yes, but too many to go into here. There are many references in my book "Circular Evidence," and in the "Undeniable Evidence" and "The Madison Square Garden Crop Circle Special" videos.

MURPHY: Myself, only warmth; however, I have witnessed all sorts of reactions in other people including a client last year who was violently ill for two days with flu-like symptoms. Then we discovered that another person with another group was experiencing the same violent symptoms. A scary experience as an expedition leader.

NHNE: What was your most memorable crop circle experience and why?

ANDREWS: While visiting a circle in a remote field at Kimpton, Hampshire, England during July 1987, I heard a very strange buzzing sound which was close to me and appeared to interact with me. I was overwhelmed by the experience and it left me very touched because it began after I had stood near the ring alone and prayed for a clue as to what the crop circles were about. A year later, the same sound was recorded on two occasions in crop circles -- one was at "Operation White Crow," the other while a BBC TELEVISION crew were interviewing myself and Pat Delgado, my co-author of "Circular Evidence."

MURPHY: This year's Triple Julia Set -- a fractal following the single Julia Set -- and most emphatic, the Mandelbrot Set of a couple of years ago. Whether hoaxed or real, these were the most meaningful to me personally.

NHNE: How many crop circles in England do you estimate are genuine, versus faked?

ANDREWS: I think it is possible that as many as 70% of the crop circles currently appearing in England are hoaxed, but that is not by any means a confident figure. Many are not visited on the ground due to limited resources, but by aerial surveillance you can usually get a good idea of legitimacy. I have visited many hoaxes and have been part of a number of experiments with people (including the British Army) who have tried to replicate the features of the genuine article. The experience of Pat Delgado proves that if you jump to quick conclusions before all the information has been gathered, it is possible to be fooled. [A few years ago Delgado was too hasty in announcing that a certain crop circle was legitimate, only upon further investigation to discover to his dismay and embarrassment that it was a hoax.]

MURPHY: I do not have any estimate of percentage of real versus fake, but the ones I have personally observed showing layers of plaited plants, an intricate, intelligent layering that which I know cannot be man made, are about three times as common as the sloppily-pressed-down ones consisting of just damaged plants.

NHNE: What are the qualities that most distinguish an authentic crop circle from a hoax?

ANDREWS: These are the main ones:

-- Well-defined geometric design.

-- No damage to plants.

-- No soil compression or foot prints.

-- A spiral fingerprint recognized by my database.

-- Rotations verses diameter.

-- Changes in plants at cellular level (I personally think this is not yet established but has been published in the scientific literature).

-- Magnetic anomalies.

-- Established mathematical ratios between component parts.

MURPHY: The huge intricate designs and the layers of plaited plants.

NHNE: Have you personally met any of the people responsible for creating fake crop circles and, if so, why did they say they were doing it?

ANDREWS: Yes, several. The most fascinating thing is they do not know why they do it. Some younger ones just do it for a laugh or publicity and the results are usually very obviously hoaxed. Even the famous Doug and Dave have admitted, "It was as if we were being told to do it."

MURPHY: No, and it is hard for me to imagine anyone wasting precious time and energy on such a feat as hoaxing a circle.

NHNE: We understand that there are records of crop circles from as early as the 16th century. Is this true and, if so, how wide-spread and developed were crop circles of past centuries versus today?

ANDREWS: There are three records of crop circles in the 1600's, but the modern-day phenomena started around 1923 with small numbers up until 1976, at which point they increased in number and complexity.

NHNE: Crop circles seem to be evolving into increasingly complicated shapes. They also seem to have evolved through a series of strikingly different themes over the years. Any ideas why?

ANDREWS: In general terms, we appear to have been spoon fed images of animals, insects, mathematical models, fractal geometry, and, in recent years, astronomy. I interpret that as a spiritual nudge: "Know who you are and how you work and then look outwards to learn more."

MURPHY: No, but would anyone be paying attention to just simple circles after all these years? If they had remained just circles, by now they would be just accepted without question as part of our humdrum reality. Perhaps someone is trying to hold our interest or attention. Remember, our attention spans are growing shorter and shorter these days. We must be constantly entertained with increasing cleverness!

NHNE: Do you have any explanations as to why some genuine crop circles are so stunningly symmetrical and beautiful while others seem sloppy and disjointed?

ANDREWS: No, but I have noticed the hand of different cosmic artists throughout my research -- country by country, and county by county. I believe we ourselves are a part of what is happening -- our awareness is reflected by the organizing field in the quality of the form produced.

MURPHY: Don't know why any genuine circle would be sloppy unless the makers caught the crop in a very advanced stage and thus the palette became difficult to work with.

NHNE: Most foreign crop circles appear to be concentrated in the USA, Australia, Germany and Canada. Any idea why this might be? Why aren't more crop circles appearing in other countries around the world?

ANDREWS: Not known, although you have missed a major hot spot in the Czech Republic.

MURPHY: Maybe persons in these other countries are so caught up in the more human things such as getting food on the table, etc. that they just do not have time to pay attention to something they feel is trivial.

[The following questions were answered by Joyce Murphy only.]

NHNE: Why do you think most crop circles are appearing in England, typically within a 40 mile radius of Stonehenge?

MURPHY: No real opinion on this unless somehow Stonehenge is the true center and the more perfect works of this art occur near the centers of strength. I just heard a theory about Stonehenge a few days ago from a recent abductee who reported that the aliens said Stonehenge is a cosmic clock with a crystal in the center which breaks up light into rays of red, blue and at least one other color (I forgot which) which are then projected onto specific stones. Perhaps crop circles are just appendages of this clock.

NHNE: How do crop circles that have appeared in snow, ice, rice paddies, sand and other natural media compare to the ones appearing in crop fields?

MURPHY: The only one I have seen was a photo of a circle on the Hudson River formed on very thin ice. I remember it to be quite complex, considering the materials the artist had to work with.

NHNE: Crop circles are appearing in more and more other media. Any ideas why?

MURPHY: Just trying to get the message out -- whatever that message may be. Perhaps it's, "If I keep trying and trying, and maybe one of these days those Earth idiots will get the message."

NHNE: How many serious crop circle investigators and crop circle organizations are there in the world today?

MURPHY: Quite a few persons are now doing crop circle research. We are seeing more and more names of organizations that we have not heard of before. One of the most sensible theories that we have heard is from the very dedicated researcher Ilyes. She has her theory printed in a short booklet form. I would not attempt to quote her theory, but invite your readers to have a look.

NHNE: Given that a host of new crop circles is continuing to appear every year, often becoming more complex and difficult to explain, why do you think the scientific community and mass media at large isn't paying more attention to them?

MURPHY: They feel they have already been there, done that. In their opinion, since they have found no explanation, there may not be one. Also, Doug and Dave (admitted hoaxers who came clean) have settled the issue for most people. Everyone knows that it was Doug and Dave made all the circles throughout the world and are still creating more and more complex patterns in their retirement. I would like to be their travel agent. And now others have taken up the rewarding hobby -- those circles which are not created by Doug and Dave themselves are done by this growing group.

NHNE: Who or what do you think is responsible for creating crop circles? Why are they happening and what is their message or meaning for humanity?

MURPHY: I personally believe that there are three possible answers:

-- The Gaia Theory (as Colin Andrews once stated) that Mother Earth is living organism and that she is crying.

-- That multi-dimensional ETs are creating some sort of message for all us.

-- That the superpowers have some sort of new toy and their games are resulting in these works of art.

I think the season for crop circles may have peaked in the summer of 1996, and that there may not be many more. Our time is nearly up on this planet. We have messed our own nests and we do not even realize it. We are living in a very fragile environment. If only one small element of this intricate creation fails, then we could start tumbling. Total chaos might be the result. If we, as conscious beings, have not received the message by now, we never will.

NHNE: Any more thoughts on the recent Oliver's Castle crop circle video (now that Colin Andrews has identified it almost certainly as a hoax)?

MURPHY: Probably just another attempt to divert attention from the real issues.


Some good places to visit on the Internet are:


and ALT.PARANORMAL.CROP-CIRCLES, a newsgroup on Usenet featuring discussions, arguments, reports, and the latest research on crop circles


For anybody who wishes to be kept aware of developments and research progress in the remarkable field of crop circles, you can subscribe to the CPR INTERNATIONAL NEWSLETTER ($17/year) by contacting:

P.O. Box 3378
Branford, CT 06405-1978

Phone/Fax: (603) 356-0100

For those interested in crop circles and a wide variety of other UFO-related phenomena, you can become a member of BEYOND BOUNDARIES INC. for one year for $30. BEYOND BOUNDARIES members receive the following benefits:

-- BEYOND BOUNDARIES bimonthly magazine mailed to your postal address
-- International connection with contactees, and experiencers
-- Introductory gift of exclusive Stonehenge glyph photo
-- Discount on cost of joining your first expedition
-- Opportunity to publish your research or opinions
-- Discounts on BEYOND BOUNDARIES products
-- Discount on advertising in the magazine
-- Access to massive photo library
-- UFO Network Database access

P.O. Box 250
Rainbow, Texas 76077

Phone: (800) 259-8747
Fax: (817) 573-1582


© Copyright 1996 by NewHeavenNewEarth

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