An NHNE Special Report
By NHNE SwiftWing Reporter Sherry Stultz
June 4th and June 10th, 1998
at his home in Portsmouth
Paul Vigay is a network computer manager for a British public school, and he is the coordinator for the UK Operation Right to Know. He also is an Internet consultant, owns a software company called DIGITAL PHENOMENA, and researches crop circles in his spare time. The following interview was conducted in two parts and contains excerpts from tapes I recorded while talking with Paul on two different evenings.
SJS: Tell me about Right-to-Know?
PV: It was founded in about 1992-93 in America, a grassroots organization to raise public awareness to get the government to release what it knows, or basically come clean about what they know. So even if they don't know anything, admit they're none the wiser and share information because over the years there has been so much nuts and bolts type UFO accounts. Commercial pilots and military pilots that have actually seen UFO's. The sheer weight of evidence begs the question that something is going on, and the government obviously knows about it. A friend of mine, John Holoman, set up a UK branch in 1992-93; we organized a couple of demonstrations in London and they had a petition to give to the Ministry of Defense and sent letters to all the MP's, which is quite interesting at the time because Nick Pope, the sort of British spokesperson for the military on UFO's; he'd come out and said, "No comment. UFO's don't exist. There is no military threat." But actually about a year or so after these demonstrations, Nick Pope came out and said that he actually did believe in UFO's and the government was covering it up and wrote a book on it. His successor is a woman called Carrie Philpot and she's now back on the official line: if you write a letter, it's UFO's don't exist.
I sent an open letter to Tony Blair, the Prime Minister, and faxed it to all the national papers, and got a number of radio and TV interviews out of it and then I got the usual sort of Downing Street reply back.
SJS: What's the usual sort of Downing Street reply?
PV: Thank you for your inquiry. It's been passed to the relevant people, but we're not really interested in that sort of thing, which was a pity, but then it was to be expected. We're hoping if we can get enough people together we can organize another demonstration. The whole point of Operation Right to Know is not say here's what you should believe; it's to make the evidence available and get people to ask questions so that the general public is given a fair set of data and they can make up their own minds.
SJS: So it's trying to offset the drone mentality that we have in America, too? People not investigating things or paying attention to things that are happening around them?
PV: I am sure that's part of what people would say is the global conspiracy or the cover-up. It's almost that the general public is conditioned into living a certain kind of life that's probably easy for the government. They are probably happy for people to come home and watch TV and pay the mortgage and get up the following day and go to work again and not really question all these new concepts or new sciences. I think it's probably more subtle; that the government is worried if some new technology exists, where you don't need petrol or fuel, then basically every western economy will collapse overnight. If someone did discover free energy, I am sure the government would want to suppress it... The government is just happy for people to just watch TV, be mundane.
SJS: Civil unrest takes a lot of work.
PV: The thing that first got me into crop circles was my mother, because I was pretty much a skeptic. Mom has always been interested in paranormal ghosts and things, and she'd been out to a crop circle and she got loads of crop samples from this crop circle and from outside it. I happened to go up to visit her and I had brought my electrostatic meter, which can pick up electric cables behind walls, minute electrical current. I was testing it on different things, because you can touch it on plants and get electrical indication in the plant. It's a sequence of LED's and anything living or within electric fields will give you an indication.
SJS: So if you put it on me it would give you a reading?
PV: You get a set of flashing sequence of lights, whereas if you touched it on a door or something earthed you wouldn't. I touched it on some of these samples and I was getting readings on some, but not on others.The ones it didn't register on came from inside the crop circle and it was literally as if they had been earthed, all the energy had been drained away and this intrigued me at the time, and I thought wow, I've got to go visit one first hand. So I took the equipment out to one, and there was literally no energy inside the crop circle. It would start again when you got out the other side. I went to a number of them and I was getting anomalous results, and it got a bit of a reputation of almost a litmus test. So some people tried getting me to go to certain formations and have me measure it to see if it was hoaxed or genuine. In a hoaxed formation, the inside of the crop circle would basically give the same readings as the outside; there would be no difference.
One time there was a project ARGUS organized by CCCS in 1992 and as part of a control experiment, they actually made a crop circle themselves with the permission of the farmer. At the time they didn't tell anyone; they just reported it as a new crop circle. I went to this formation with some other researchers and lo and behold there was no difference in the readings and so I told them that it was hoax. About three days later they (CCCS) confessed the story behind it, and they were quite intrigued; since then I have been developing this over the years and getting other bits of equipment, but I'm now firmly convinced there is a genuine phenomena purely through personal experience. Even though I meet lots of people who've had personal experiences, to me that's effectively third-hand.
I'd like to see it myself before I'd believe it. And certainly a lot of the stuff I've had, you can't explain it through hoaxing. For example, I was with my mum and I had my mobile phone. She said let me borrow your phone; I'll ring your dad and say I am in the middle of a crop circle. I gave her the phone and she said it wouldn't work. And I thought she didn't know how to work it. Well, there was no signal on the bar graph. I thought this is strange. I went to the edge of the crop circle and held it outside and you could actually see the meter go up to full signal strength outside the crop circle. I pulled the phone back in and literally in a space of two feet, it went back down to zero. So I went forward a few steps and did it again and the exact same results. And it was one of these elaborate sort of pictograms, with keys and little shapes. And the exact shape of the crop circle there was no signal; the phone just didn't work inside it and yet just arm's length outside it into the standing crop, it was full-signal strength.
SJS: That was a day that blew your mind?
PV: I was still skeptical; I was thinking this can't be right. The skeptical part of you almost wants to prove you wrong. So I did more and more tests to prove my first tests. Literally in the whole area there was a full signal apart from in that crop circle. Over the years I've had a number of anomalies that personally have convinced me there is a genuine phenomena, irrespective of other people. I've had brand new batteries completely discharged, completely flattened in 10 seconds and they've not come back.
SJS: What about any sort of physical discomfort?
PV: I personally haven't really been affected by crop circles to an extent.
SJS: No euphoria, no illness?
PV: Despite me going into formations where other people have felt violently ill. I've felt no ill effects whatsoever. The only couple times I've felt strange was in one formation in 1994, down Avebury Avenue. I think people called it the Celtic Barmaid Formation. And it was pretty widely regarded as a hoax. And I thought it was a hoax even before I went in it. And so there was no preconception. My initial feeling was to measure it up and do the results for completeness (a control sample) and yet in that formation I had a really weird feeling. It was not a physical sick; it was a psychological dread or fear... the world was crashing in... and I literally had to run out.
SJS: Like a panic attack?
PV: Sort of like a panic attack, I just felt really negative; it was really weird feeling.
SJS: And you don't consider yourself a really sensitive person?
PV: Not really, no. I haven't ever really had that feeling before, then or after.
SJS: What about the meter?
PV: There was nothing anomalous in terms of the meter. All the crop circles areas around Avebury are near ancient burial mounds, sacred spots, so whether or not there was perhaps an ancient burial mound with negative vibes, I don't know. I had spoken to other people who were physically sick in that formation. Again, some people would argue that if it was hoaxed, perhaps the people that hoaxed it had such a negative intention or energy, they left some vibes behind.The type of research I am looking for is nuts and bolts kinds of physical data like malfunction in equipment, so I tend to swap information with Lucy Pringle who studies the physical effects because it's not really my line of research.
I'm sure there are different vibes people can pick up from them, but I am also sure from your state of mind, if people go into the crop circle it's almost like a self healing occurs -- if they go with the intention. Then you could argue that it's the power of the mind that healed them anyway.
SJS: Like a TV evangelist when they put their hand on your forehead?
PV: Yeah, sort of, and I know that works because a few years back I worked in the pharmacology department of the university and we used to do experiments with headache tablets and we had ground salt pressed into tablets and give them to people. Then we'd test to see if they were cured and we give them non-headache tablets and it would still cure a headache. Because they believed they had taken the tablet, they'd get better.
SJS: What was the second time? You said there were two times.
PV: The other time was a formation down in Sussex. I felt sick there, but I didn't attribute it to the crop circle. I was with Lucy Pringle and she said that it was the crop circle.
SJS: Did you have your meter with you?
PV: At that particular formation, I did get some blips on the meter. You could argue there was something there to detect.
SJS: How old was it?
PV: It was probably about a week old, which is the other thing because with the meter, a lot of these readings tend to be short-lived.
SJS: At one point you said you were measuring the lack of energy?
PV: It seems to be a lack of energy, and it was just the opposite of what I thought. It was literally as if whatever made the formation had earthed it and sucked all the energy out of it, which in turn ties in with some of the BLT research. If it's some kind of vortex that's created, perhaps a vacuum in the electromagnetic spectrum. Recently, I've gotten proper calibrated equipment which gives the read out in megahertz, and there certainly seems to be things between 300 and 600 megahertz radio signal, which is a pretty high frequency. I generally assume that every crop circle is a hoax, and then the equipment is going to prove me wrong because I am looking for any anomalies. So initially when I go into a crop circle, I take two or three readings, and if I don't get anything, I'll wander around it looking for things like broken stalks, swollen nodes, bending, and footsteps, and signs of human construction. And I also take more readings. If I go into a crop circle and the meter suddenly goes haywire then I'll think "Oh wow, there's something here..." If I get a positive result, I'll then start taking more readings, almost as if to find an area that doesn't have a positive reading, so I then get quite a good set of results.
SJS: Now in another conversation, you said that instead of having the energy cause the crop circle, that it's possible the energy is always there and the crop circle is just formed. A totally unrelated phenomena to energy forms the crop circle and they just happen to either appear in places where there is a lot of energy or appear in places where there isn't much energy? Or are there other factors that make them so specific that it has to be related to the energy?
PV: It depends really. There is definitely some sort of energy interaction. In areas where I've monitored crop circle and taken readings and I have gotten positive readings, I tend to go back after a couple of weeks and see if I can replicate the readings, and in a number formations after a period of 6-8 weeks the crop circle readings will go back to normal.
SJS: It dissipates?
PV: So if for argument's sake there was something in the ground that was attracting the crop circle, then you would generally expect the energy to be there all year around, irrespective if there was a crop circle. So there the energy seems to be with the crop circle and then dissipate over time. What the energy is, is speculative and I am still trying to find that out.
SJS: What do you think about the UFO theory?
PV: Again from my interest in UFO's, I would like there to be a link, but at the moment, there's been no solid concrete link between crop circles and UFO's. Other than the fact that a lot of UFO's have been spotted in crop circle sights. Now for argument's sake, aliens exist, they could be as intrigued by crop circles as we are.
I was plotting crop circles into three dimensional shapes and then taking them as a cross section through higher dimensional physics, so if you were living in a two dimensional world and you've got a piece a paper and you pass a three dimensional object through it. I did a computer animation to demonstrate this. Say you point a pencil through this plane, because that two dimensional person can't see up and down, they effectively see a cross section of the pencil, so it will be like a point, which will expand and then contract. A bit like a football comes through the surface of the water, if you're on that surface you'll see a circle appear, expand and contract and disappear. You won't actually see the football. If you took that from our dimension, we see and feel everything in three dimensions. So if some four or five dimensional or higher dimensional entity came through our dimension, you would end up with these foot prints that we see and try to interpret and think that it's some form of communication when effectively, it's just the residue of something that's passed through our space-time, as it were. And when I was developing these computer graphics, you can actually find that one shape will cause multiple crop circles.
I actually did a whole animation a few years back, which I used to show at some of the lectures I gave that linked together six of the major formations of that time, including the massive Barbury Castle formation of 1991. It would form other shapes, and the way I did it, I rotated the whole thing and it always get a gasp from the audience when they actually see the thing animated and you can speed it up. Again it's the sort of thing that's interesting research and it tends to inspire you to go on and do more.
SJS: We have been discussing the recent theory proposed by the BLT Team that was printed in a recent CNI newsletter about plasma forming different shapes.
PV: There are too many points to try to fit into that theory. For example, the underlying chalk hypothesis. A crop circle will appear where there is no chalk or there's no hill slope. Some of these patterns are so elaborate. The point they make in CNI is why don't you get half-formed patterns? Why are they always perfectly shaped? And I think he answers that there is a lot of crop damage, but then the crop damage is dramatically different from the formation. You'd almost expect to see a damaged crop formation. At the moment you seem to have two extremes: you either have flattened totally random wind damage or totally elaborate pictogram.
SJS: I was walking around Stonehenge yesterday and I was looking all around and I was looking at weeds. Do crop circles ever just form in weeds? Why is it always standing crop?
PV: There have been formations in grass.
SJS: Regular old grass or whatever is growing in a pasture?
PV: The problem is because we don't know what the energy is, the cells and cell tissues in crops are probably a lot weaker so it takes less effort to form something in cereal crops. Whereas something like a thistle is quite bushy and perhaps require a higher energy. Perhaps you get a different level of cellulose in the stems or whatever in the actual stems themselves.
SJS: It just strikes me as odd that they are always formed in standing crop.
PV: They have been formed in things like sugar beets, cabbages, and turnips.
SJS: But you can't see the level of complexity in terms of the circles.
PV: No, they have always been sort of poor or sketchy patterns.
SJS: Have you ever checked your meters in them?
PV: No, they are fairly rare. There was an occurrence the year before where a circle was formed in the tops of pine trees, about 70 feet up. Up near Litchfield somewhere.
PV: There are subtle links from year to year and people studying sacred geometry will find geometric links. Now surely if the whole subject was just a hoax, either the same group of hoaxers have been doing it day in and day out all around the country and all around the world all summer for fifteen years or there are new groups of hoaxers coming along. But how do the new groups of hoaxers know what were we're looking for. If it was just a group of school kids that saw it on TV and made a formation, then we wouldn't find similarities from the previous year. So it almost implies that the group of hoaxers have been along to the crop circle conferences, which some of them do attend, people like Lundberg and Dickinson. You could argue that they have listened to our arguments and they will think, "Oh, we will hoax this and we will give them ley lines and 6 fold geometry," but that's assuming they are doing the whole lot. Now if they are not doing the whole lot then how are these other hoaxers finding out what we're doing unless they are going along to the conferences or they are training the next year's hoaxers?
And it seems too well organized, despite the fact that no one's ever been caught, and they have never be able to accurately reproduce anything. Jim Schnabel allegedly made a formation at Silbury Hill in 1992. And I think he published it in his book and again it's disinformation because he's got a photo of the formation drawn on the side of the combine harvester in the dust with his finger, which he allegedly took of the formation. I know for a fact he didn't take the photo or the photo is not taken in the formation purely because I was lucky enough to be in that formation when it was harvested and I know Jim Schnabel wasn't there so he could not have taken the photo off the harvester in that formation. It had to be a close-up of a combine harvester in a different field somewhere which he has then labeled as that field. Why is he trying to disinform people? And then there was so much controversy at the time he was then asked to reproduce it and the reproduction in the farmer's field and the reproduction he made was no where near the quality of the original. And yet he was allowed daylight and as much time as he wanted, and the correct implements and he couldn't come up with the comparable quality.
SJS: Why don't you hoax?
PV: The whole motive, if you were doing it as a scientific test you would hoax and by definition not tell any about it to see what the hoaxers and the researchers reactions would be and I don't believe in misleading the researchers like that. Being a researcher myself I could see that it would waste time and effort and it would muddy all the research. And if you made one and told everyone it was a hoax, it would be self-defeating anyway because the researchers would perhaps be less careful with their results. Even if they did find something anomalous they would be more wary to say so if they knew it was a hoax. It doesn't serve any purpose for me to actual hoax a formation.
An NHNE Special Report
By NHNE SwiftWing Reporter Sherry Stultz